Is there an anti-diesel conspiracy afoot?
I don't often link to articles on other sites, but this editorial by Detroit News columnist John McCormick echoes my thoughts almost verbatim. It has to do with the fact that diesel prices have mysteriously started to creep upwards just as the US is about to get its first proper introduction to diesel cars.
I've always been a big fan of diesel, but I've also thought that it's going to take the introduction of a diesel-powered Honda or Toyota before Americans will take diesel cars seriously. That is about to happen -- Acura (a division of Honda) has announced their plans for a diesel-powered TSX, and we expect that Honda will introduce a diesel in one of their cars (most likely the Accord, the CR-V or the Element) shortly thereafter.
Diesel cars are bad news for the oil companies. They get fantastic fuel economy, and unlike gasoline engines, diesels can run on non-oil-based fuel (such as biodiesel) with little or no modification. (And with modification, they can run on straight vegetable oil -- in fact, Dr. Rudolph Diesel originally designed the engine to run on peanut oil.) Diesels offer a clear path away from oil dependance -- but how open will Americans be to embracing the diesel when the fuel is priced 50 cents to a buck higher than gasoline? (As it happens, even with a 25% price hike, a diesel may still save you money.) The oil companies are making excuses, but I call BS -- I think this is an attempt to head off diesel at the pass.
What's not being said is that America runs on diesel -- it powers the trucks and trains that distribute goods across this vast country. Forget about the impact on cars that we can't even buy yet -- higher diesel prices mean higher prices for everything (including food) and harder times for millions of Americans, not in the future but right now. I agree with Mr. McCormick -- why isn't our government looking into this? Check out his article, then click the "comments" link below and share your own thoughts. -- Aaron Gold
Full article: Big Oil Seems Slick as US Turns to Diesel Cars
Photo © Aaron Gold
Comments
You are on point about diesel and the oil manufacturers. Hopefully, American consumers will accept diesel technology and future offerings. BTW, the upcoming Subaru boxer diesel (the first ever) sure posts some impressive specs and numbers as well as receiving glowing reveiws.
I drive a 05 Duramax diesel that gets 18 mpg around town and 25 mpg on the highway. It weighs 7300 pounds. All thats been done is mild exhaust update and a performance air filter. I think that shows where diesel in a smaller vehicle can take the average consumer.
Diesel is in fact cheaper to produce than Gasoline. Why is it priced higher?
Because they (Oil companies)can. Don’t buy gas from Exxon, Chevron or BP.
Weak minds often fall back on “conspiracy theories” when common sense seems too logical. Conspiracy theories give easy answers to complicate and complex problems. But mostly, they’re the wrong answers.
When refineries are operating at full capacity just to keep up with gasoline and heating oil demand it only makes sense that if demand for diesel increases and supply can’t keep up, prices will adjust.
Shifting refinery resources to produce more diesel will result in producing less gasoline and heating fuel which will cause an adjustment in those prices once again.
Conspiracy theories are the playground for the ignorant and naive. When a conspiracy theorist can show me some proof that “big oil” or the government are manipulating prices, I’ll adjust my opinion. Till then, I’m satisfied with the obvious.
C
I drive an ‘06 Jetta TDI, and it’s been killing me to pay $60 for every fill-up (although admittedly it’s not so bad when that’s only every 550-600 miles). I heard a story on NPR the other day that explained the reasons pretty well, though. While what Chuck states above is true, it is not the only reason diesel prices are high.
US refineries produce most of their diesel for trucks and trains and ships, so increasing demand from autos is going to increase our demand, thereby increasing prices. We could buy it from overseas like we do most of our fuel, but with Europe buying 50+% of their cars in diesel form, supply is again short internationally.
One of the real reasons the price actually differs from gasoline, however, is not supply, but taxes. The federal tax on diesel is approximately 50% higher on diesel than gas, mostly due to the fact that semi trucks are the primary users of the fuel. Semis tear up the roads more than cars, and therefore the government imposes higher taxes on fuel that drives them (think of it as a Use Tax) to cover costs of repairing roads (ever hydroplaned on the freeway in truck ruts?).
In Europe, their tax structure is equal for both fuels (they have far fewer semis running on their roads); therefore, the price of gas and diesel are both fairly similar, but they choose diesel because of its superior mileage. If we want to create demand for superior mileage cars in the US, we need to either even out the tax structure or up it for both fuels.
The future wave of biofuels (especially biodiesel made from plant and animal fats) will help ease the demand some day for consumption of diesel, but until then, I put 20% soy biodiesel in my car and laugh at the SUVs filling up every 250 miles and spending $80.
About time someone noticed this and started inquiring. What a rip-off this has been ! The Surface Transportation Board has allowed Commercial truckers, Airlines and Railroads to pass on their increased fuel costs through Fuel Surcharges so they haven’t turned their lobbyists loose on this subject and therefore,no large, influential groups are complaining loudly enough. Has anyone asked the question why big oil’s profits are up so high when supposedly their cost of crude has risen ? Think about it…..
What shortage of gas or diesel???
Has anyone not been able to purchase as much as they want. There’s no shortage, but prices are skyhigh and Big Oil is raking in the profits. Airlines fly all they want, Cruise lines cruise all they want,–Burn-Burn-Burn. There’s no shortage;except in common sense!!
Since congress is holding hearings on Oil prices and the price of Diesel is moving contrary to supply /demand you would think they could use this leverage to understand the gouging of America. I plan to buy Diesels when available, drove them in Europe and they are great!
For years I have been asking why diesel used to be cheaper than unleaded gasoline but, beginning in about 2003 or 2004, diesel prices rose until today a gallon of diesel is seventy cents or more higher than a gallon of unleaded gasoline.
I have written my congressmen for years with nothing but frustration in return. Either they do not understand or they choose to ignore the issue.
As a fulltime rv’er towing with a diesel-powered pickup, this is a major cost issue to us.
Having had access to VW and Mercedes diesels here in Canada for a while, I can tell you they don’t end up as great as it sounds. They cost more to buy and generally the parts are more expensive. Which pretty much balances off the fuel consumption savings, especially since the price of diesel is so much higher than gas.
Still, hopefully the choice will be accepted in the US. I read somewhere that part of the reason that diesel never gained a foothold was the horrible diesel powered cars that GM offered in the 80s.
Diesel is a by-product of refining crude into gasoline. In years past there was always an abundant amount produced due to demand for gasoline with limited diesel consumers, hence the lower pricing, though less diesel than gas is produced from each barrel of crude. Of course, now with the increased demand now due to many more privately owned vehicles versus only big rigs and locomotives (as in the past), the cost of diesel has skyrocketed, although I agree that the oil and petroleum producers are sticking it to us as well.
I had my 1982 VW Pick-up engine rebuilt
by a business that builds race car engines. I now have more power and get better milage….45 mpg in town, and
55 mpg on the open road. I do not have any maintenance, except tires and freon.
I can cruise at 80 to 90 mph when the traffic is going faster. In 1920 my father invented a way to get 35 to 40mpg, and it was bought by Shell Oil. In the 1930’s again he made another carburator that got a little over 40mpg, and it was purchased by Chevron Oil. In the early 1950’s he installed a different item which combined a very fine mist in the carburator in an old 1930’s Ford pick-up, which worked. I happened to see that for myself. We are not being told the truth. I want to experience clean air in my lifetime, not some excuse why hear why it cannot be done.I have noticed several times, where on the front page the BIG 3 explain why they are unable to sever the ties with BIG OIL. On the third or fourth page, there is an article about a new car in the showrooms that either gets better milage, or is not dependant on oil. Some of those cars are strange, because they run on Compressed Natural Gas, Compressed Air, or they can burn vegetable oil. Where is the TRUTH IN ADVERTISING ? Could it be that TIA is a misnomer? Like JUMBO SHRIMP OR 12 ounce POUND ?
Hey Chuck Manson if you want some proof that the government and oil companies are fixing the price you only have to look at their profits for the past couple of years. Those that believe all they read and hear in the mainstream press are no more intelligent then sheep. So follow the flock and remain ignorant of the truth.
U.S. Dept. of Energy modeling has shown diesel fuel to be more oil- and carbon-intensive than reformulated gasoline.
Making a gallon of diesel fuel requires 25% more oil and emits 17% more heat-trapping greenhouse gases than gasoline reformulated with MTBE. Similarly, diesel requires 17% more oil and emits 18% more heat-trapping gases than gasoline reformulated with ethanol. This means that diesel fuel’s advantages from its higher per-gallon energy content and better performance on greenhouse gases are partially offset by the impact of diesel’s fuel-production process. I own a diesel now and have in the past owned three others. Next vehicle I buy will be all electric! I’ll literally wear-out what I’m now driving before buying another car or truck.
Mr. Manson’s comment seems very similar to a particular oil stockholder that I know.
1) Refineries have been running at full capacity for some time now. Meaning they can’t use not operating at full capacity due to maintenance as their excuse.
2) Gasoline usage over the past year alone is down over 7% meaning they can’t use supply and demand as their excuse.
3) There is one viable explanation for all this though; SELFISH GREED. It’s that simple.
Hey Dave!
OMG! A company made profit? How dare they??
Be careful when you start complaining about how much profit a company makes. It only makes sense that a large company can make a larger profit than most smaller companies. Return on sales is a method of evaluating how productive a company is operating and oil companies have been in the top ten but are behind many companies/industries such as Microsoft, Pharmaceuticals, Jewelers/gemstones, software etc. in percentage of return on sales.
Exxon for example earns about 10% on sales, Microsoft earns 25%. Many others earn much more ROS%. So, judging an industry or business by it’s gross earnings is not a fair or honest method. It doesn’t take a lot of common sense to see that big numbers are going to come out of huge companies. But it’s fun to vent isn’t it?
C
Jeffy,
7% drop? I don’t think so Jeff. See this: http://tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/hist/mgfupus1A.htm
But again, it’s therapeutic to complain and vent.
C
Dave, profits aren’t absolute proof of price-fixing. Today’s farmers are doing well because of a run-up in grain prices driven in part by rampant speculation; they aren’t price-fixing. The same is true with fuels. Oil is traded as a commodity on an exchange. When prices are high, oil companies make money hand over fist. Speculation in fuels in dollars has increased 100 times over what it was in the year 2000. Thus the ridiculous prices and massive profits by oil companies. That isn’t the whole story, though. In the article by Mr McCormick questions are raised about why there isn’t any apparent emphasis on building more refineries, or how are prices set at the local level. Oil companies can still manipulate the market by adjusting supply and they can still price-fix on a local-regional level. If diesel is a by-product of gasoline production, there is only so much that can be produced conventionally. But what about bio-diesel? It wouldn’t be tied to the amount of gasoline produced. That is why these questions are so interesting. So there is no smoking gun here, but really we don’t want to blame so much as we want results.
Hey, Aaron. You just wanted to stir us up didn’t you? It was a quiet day in the blogosphere when out of the blue……
Hey Jeffy,
You should pay attention to your stockholder friend. He may be basing his opinions on facts rather than emotions.
1) HUH? That makes no sense?
2) 7% drop? Not true. Go to http:// tonto.eia.doe.gov/dnav/pet/hist/mgfupus1A.htm
Notice the gap between the //
3) Hmmm? Could be. It’s not a bad thing for a company to want to succeed as long as it’s legal. I know I want every company I’m invested in, to strive to be the best they can be.
btw-previously posted with the eia link intact but I guess Aaron didn’t want the truth printed.
C
Chuck, dude, you posted at 8:30AM. I have it on good authority that Aaron is asleep at this ungodly hour. Don’t attack a sleeping guy; it’s unethical….er……..why am I preaching ethics to Chuck Manson?
Refineries are the Issue
Diesel is what is known as a middle distillate. Gasoline a light distillate. Gasoline is readily produced by the catalytic cracking type distilleries that are the prmary type of distllation in the US. Diesel is not a by-product of these distillations, but it is a longer more intensive distillation and because of the new less than 15ppm sulfur content laws it has become even more expensive.
Hydroskimming and hydrocracking distillation is the more popular type of process in Europe and it produces more diesel at a lower cost than catalytic cracking. Europe has also been producing UltraLow sulfer diesel (less than 10 ppm sulfur) for a long time.
Until there is a greater supply of diesel in the US at lower cost, diesel will continue to creep upwards.
FWIW there is also approximately 25 cents of tax on diesel vs 18 cents of tax on gas at the fed level.
Hey Mel S,
Diesel only uses that much more oil when compared within the catalytic cracking process. Also, MTBE has been outlawed. It is INCREDIBALLY NASTY STUFF. Ethanol is now used as the additive. This changes things, I’ll let you cook the math but diesel is an incredible fuel compared with gasoline.
I originally posted yesterday afternoon Mikey. The post never appeared. I’m sure he’s out test driving some Ferrari someplace ;op
C
I don’t get the desire to blame the companies. The article linked building manufacturing plants on par with refineries. The amount of Government regulations required to build the refineries is astronomical in comparison.
The problemm IS the Government. As already stated, they tax diesel heavier than gasoline. They back losing propositions like 85% ethenol which is total unreasonable (any idea how much land is required to even come close to producing that much corn?). Leasing offshore government controlled properties in the U.S. (GOM) is much higher than leases in most foriegn countries making domestic exploration expensive and pushes the Energy industry to look for more foriegn opportunities.
When will we learn to quick trusting polititians who haven’t a clue about the energy situation. Diesel is the only way to go. Eurpeans have nad it right for a long time. Oh, and don’t forget the Gas to Liquids technology which makes VERY clean diesel from Natural Gas. Now the natural gas energy can come to the U.S. as a motor fuel and not have it all shipped in LNG tankers.
Sorry, guys — Spam filter caught Chuck’s post. Not sure why — it’s a spam filter, not a hot air filter!
And Chuck was half-right, I was out driving, but not in a Ferarri… in a Honda Odyssey minivan.
Irloyal, thanks for the info. I think I recently read something similar to that in C&D. Plus I think I’ve read what Jim G wrote about the regulatory nightmare involved in the building of refineries. In fact, if I remember right, no new ones have been built since 1979–in spite of big profits–due in large part to their being exceedingly unpopular wherever they are located. We can’t convert old refineries over to hydrocracking either, because they would then produce way less gasoline. Americans (individuals and government) need to allow new refineries to be built. Finally China and India are consuming a higher diesel to gas ratio than we do. So with their growth they have put pressure on all fuel prices, but more on diesel than gas.
Refineries not being built, EPA, and other eco-idiots who fight every refiniery and drilling that anyone wants to try, and taxes. To blame the oil companies when they make about 11 cents per gallon profit, compared to taxes which account for many times that per gallon is insane. Government and special interests have created this mess. Now we have the Chineese drilling miles outside out continental shelf for oil that we should be harvesting only shows the ignorance that our politicians have gotten us in to.
And the post about greenhouse gases, give me a break! Talk about following the uniformed masses like blind sheep. Do some research, will you!
Heck, all I know is that Bush was an oil guy, Condi Rice was on the board of Chevron, Cheney was CEO of oil related Haliburton/KBR…Naw, there’s no conspiracy going on. It’s all just a crazy convergence that all these oil power players happened to get jobs in this administration, exactly at the same time as oil companies are making record profits and our kids are dying in a war that has nothing to do with oil!
As for Chuck, he’s hoping that his oil heavy stock portfolio will make enough dough so he can remove that embarrasing G.W.Bush tatoo off his shoulder.(Relax,I still love ya Chuck…even if I’m the only one)
Watch out, Hawaiian Don. Chuck is going to start calling you “Donny” as he seems to like to belittle everyone with a differing opinion. I still agree with some of what he says, but you’ll find biofuel companies in my portfolio, not the “Big Oil” companies. My bets are on alternative fuels to save the day: diesel, ethanol, hydrogen or electric.
Hey, I like Chuck. He adds a fiery opposing view. I respect his opinions and often agree with his points. I’m just making a casual observation here. Profits are good, they make business happen…but skyrocketing profits and those coincidences I mentioned ?
Well Im sure the fact that several political officials in this Country have backgrounds in the oil industry–HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH THIS PRICING MESS!!! Just like Hillary being an attorney—had nothing to do with the rechit mess that the health insurance industry is in.
Interesting commentary.
According to Bloomberg this morning, refineries are currently running at 81% capacity ie NOT full clip.
I’m not a conspiracy theorist but I do believe in capitalism. It is the American way to work to increase profits when margins shrink. With high oil prices, margins on refined fuel have fallen. If you refine less fuel, you reduce supply. With stable demand, this results in higher margins and ultimately greater profits.
Conspiracy or capitalism? I say it’s the latter and there is nothing wrong with that. If you are unhappy with current fuel prices, buy a scooter.
If you are unhappy with oil men in the White House, stop electing and reelecting them.
You get 8 gallons of diesel for every gallon of gas with normal refining. Check the exports of refined fuels and you will see where the market is being manipulated. Coal diesel is the immediate answer to all of this countrys energy problems, producing fuel that would eliminate almost all of the new emmission controls and producing a clean burning byproduct to produce electricity. Where is it? The press calls it “Hitler Diesel”. Wonder who pays for those articles.
I was just reading that with catalytic cracking (the most common type in the U.S.) the ratio is 50% gas and 15% diesel. The rest is divided between jet fuel, home heating oil, heavy fuel oil, LP gas, asphalt, etc. Hydrocracking produces 25% gas and 25% diesel; with the remaining amount divided up between other products. This was from Al Mannato, a fuel issues manager from API as reported in C&D (as I said before). So a ratio of 8 to 1 diesel to gas isn’t possible with any of the refining methods common here or in Europe. Steve, perhaps you could further explain what you mean by “normal refining”. Maybe we’re talking apples to oranges here?
Back in the days before the internal combustion engine was introduced,gasoline was a by-product of oil and was discarded.We know what happened when the engine was introduced.Diesel is the latest oil company scam.We have to continue our obscene profits,so let’s raise the price accordingly.More mileage,more cost.That equates.Big oil wins again.
I just stumbled over this article and like to add some insight from my perspective as 20 years diesel user on Biodiesel.
The article mixes things a bit up.
Yes, modern diesels provide utterly bang for the buck once you payed the car but they are rather specific about their fuel.
I first had an 3L mercedes from 1980 with 88bhp. Really no racecar at all. To get more than 110mph you had to drop it from a plane. It consumed 10-12 L/100km which was ok back then. It was nice to use Biodiesel (RME) because it was abaout 25% cheaper to buy but rather rare.
No car manufacturer actually recommended to use Biadiesel since it was agressive to the plastic piping. Well, mine didn’t complain, though.
1997 I got a VW Golf 1.9TDI which performed very much better in every way, though it had still just 90bhp.
VW officially allowed to use Biodiesel while other brands didn’t.
Later even VW stepped back and when they switched engine technology after 2000 Biodiesel was prohibited b/c it’d kill the motor.
Today diesels are much more powerful, faster and have better mileage but they got more limited in fuel quality.
Biodiesel is out of the question.
The real advantage is the economical factor when it comes to compare mpg.
To use alternative bio fuels one has to look for an older diesel engine like mecedes or vw before 2000.
With some modifications they’ll burn salad oil or even used but filtered frying fat (french fries).
Well I say this. The fact that we Americans are also using PLASTIC like todays the end of the stuff. Plastic is a major use of petroleum. Now then. I think the reason people are quick to say “CONSPIRACY” is because *SOME OF US* remember the 70s when the OIL industry got out of hand, the Govt stepped in and reduced the speed limit to 55MPH. I know back then they called it a shortage. Today it is a “SUPPLY IS LESS THAN DEMAND” —- hello that is a shortage DUH*!! If there really was a problem today. The Govt could do the same thing and reduce the speed limit to 55MPH. The reason that hasnt happenned is unknown. That is the only reason some folks claim “CONSPIRACY THEORY”
This will give you a hint as to how old I am, but in the first two “gas crises” (1972/3 and mid-1980’s) the price of gasoline rose but the price of diesel fuel did not. The explanation at the time was that diesel is a “middle distillate” so it is cheaper to make and more plentiful. The lower (and apparently more stable) price of diesel was a reason for the marketing (and temporary popularity) of the Oldsmobile diesel engine and other domestic attempts. They would have improved if demand had remained - but gas prices went down.
So, here’s the question: How come suddenly in 2008, diesel is more expensive and the per-gallon price of diesel is higher than gasoline? I haven’t heard that explanation.
BTW, I really like the idea of blending diesel fuel with vegetable oil. There’s a local ski resort that mentions in their ads, that their snow-treatment vehicles are powered by vegetable oil fuel. The tag line is, “When it drives by, it smells like french fries!” There’s a point that will sell!
(BTW, the old deep-fryer oil from Mickey-D’s isn’t a ‘middle distillate,’ is it?)
I.
Well inkslinger, like I said before, China and India consume alot higher ratio of diesel to gasoline than we do. So as those two economies have grown, the overall worldwide ratio of diesel to gas has tilted more to diesel. Those two countries weren’t an issue back in the late 70s.
That is the reasonable-sounding explanation I’ve read. Is it the truth or whole truth—I don’t know. I suspect that speculation in the fuels market makes up the rest of the price increase. Speculation in the fuels is absolutly nuts right now.
I wonder if fry oil has as a bad of an effect on engines as it has on hearts. Imagine a rash of clogged fuel lines. High gas pressure. Overweight snow groomers
A lot of crooks driving the country.
This is simple awnser.
I worked for refinary plant for more than 10 years and i am 100% sure diesel are 30% cheaper than gasoline,because gasoline comming from diesel.Only in US everything upside down.
Declare a moritorium against the internal combustion engine. Reduce or eliminate dependence on foreign oil. Terminate the biofuel craze. Fix the environment. Bring our troops home. Again be a leader of the world. ALL internal combustions have gotton us to where we are over the last 100 years. It time to move on to solar; battery; power cell; energy cell. ALL are possible. Remember when Kennedy said we WILL go to the moon in the next decade? We can do it.
Hunt–wrong on airlines able to pass on fuel increases-otherwise why are Southwest and Continental’s profits in the toilet? Fredrickson–old chestnut about 100 mpg carburetor redux–are you sending this from your yacht in the Mediterranean? Irloyal–right on, bro. I feel that speculation by people burned by the credit market, property devaluation, and derivatives are looking for new methods of making money in a hurry. I hope they get emasculated, and soon. Many experts feel that the last $20-$25 of the current crude price is due strictly to commodity speculators. This is from Jefferson County, Texas==producing about 10% of all motor fuel in the U. S.
Hot air filter?? LOL That was a good one Aaron! Cracked me up.
A little off topic but I just got back from Orlando. Unfortunately it was a business trip but can someone tell me why there are so many large SUV’s in Orlando Florida? Now, as an SUV owner myself I think I’ve justified why I need one in Colorado, but there are few reasons to own an expedition in Florida.
C
Thanks for nothingis my greeting for our ignorant government and all of the oil companies.I drive a dodge cummins powered 2500 quadcab truck to work on a daily basis and with diesel at $4.20 a gallon i spend approx. 10% of my weekly pay just to drive to work and i know there are probably hundreds of thousands of blue collar family men in this same situation.I considered buying a motorcycle to commute but i have never driven one and do not wish to get myself killed and leave my 2 children and wife without a father AND HUSBAND.as expensive as the cost of living is i plan to take my tax relief money[if it ever gets here]and buy an old cheap gas miser to commute to work and park the mighty dodge by my boat and camper which are to expensive to use as well due to diesel prices.we cannot count on truckers going on strike to lower fuel prices as they are trying to make a living as well.My suggestion is that someone with a little money and knowhow start a highly publicized group or coalition and ask all users of fuels in this country to do the following-pick a starting date Example june 1st and agree not to purchase any fuel for at least 2 months except from one supplier.I believe this would start a price war among the oil companies and help prices at least somewhat.I would also suggest that we petition our state and federal governments to completly do away with fuel taxes as they already get to much money as it is ,and put the sulfur back into diesel fuel as having removed it robs engines of power and mileage and shortens the lifespan of a diesel engine as well.Perhaps someone with some clout could get all of this started and help the working man.
Prior comment intended to be sung country and western style…
just kidding j sitton.
Mike in Minn,,,That’s actually a good idea to go country. About the only way to get J Sitton’s idea off the ground would be for someone like Tim McGraw or Toby Keith to write a song about the idea and with the airplay it could get started.
But that’s all it would do is get started. The sad reality is that as soon as a run was made on the other fuel stations, they would have to raise their prices to slow down the pace. That’s the way market economies operate. Of course, people would quickly abandon the boycott and run back to the original station since their prices are probably lower than the boycott favored station. So, it’s fun to vent and pretend such a boycott would work, but it’s just pretend since it could never happen. Just my $3.49/gal. worth.
C
Unfortunately I think the only thing that’ll work over the long run is conservation and lowering demand. We’ve got to go on an energy diet and stop buying the cars we want and start buying the cars we need and can afford to drive. As for me, I won’t buy another car that doesn’t average 30 mpg. That’s why I bought my Mini 6 months ago. My CRV will be traded in for a Fit or some other utility gas miser like a VW diesel wagon. I’ll gussy it up with wheels and such, but I’ll do my part to bring prices in line.
Call me a weak mind but I still believe in the conspiracy behind keeping diesel cars out of the US market. And it is not only Big Oil using their pocket politicians, it’s US Big Auto as well, who are unapt to design and manufacture a diesel engine remotely competitive with Europeans’ ones. (The Chrysler still parading around their greatest invention - hemispherical chamber made in the sixties, for crying out loud.)
But the current rise in gas prices can do us some good. It will be increasingly difficult to suppress diesel cars and new bio-diesel technology, and maybe the US will finally break its dependency from prominent world leaders like Chavez, Putin and Saudi sheiks.
Hear all the crying and whining. If we were as smart as the Europeans we wouldn’t have junked our public transportation systems. The only transportation system we have is the tanking airlines. The only solution is for gasoline to go to eight dollars a gallon, like it is in Italy, and then we’ll get off the gasoline teat. We spend billions on outmoded personal transportation and the crumbling roads to drive them on. Get real! Somebody might have to use their feet, unheard of, to get somewhere but it’s going to have to happen. Bring back our rail system, once the most magnificent in the world (they build and maintain their own roadbeds), reestablish local light rail and bus systems. It might be a mite inconvenient but we’ll get used to it and the exercise might help with our obesity problems. I’ve read somewhere that a train can move the equivalent of fifty semis ten miles on a galeon of diesel oil. Get over the nuclear energy fear, fostered by the anti-nuke hystericals, it’s the only answer and will give us unlimited clean energy, then maybe we’ll be able to go back to personal transportation. With electrical power we can once again be the wonderful nation we once were, and not beholden to the A-Rabs. Times awasteing!!!!!
John C.
If we all rush to light rail, what’s poor Aaron going to do for a living? Don’t do it! Fight the railroad comeback…Save Aaron’s Job!!!
hawaiian don,
wrong pimping up might harm your fuel bill.
Cars consume more fuel when you install bigger or wider wheels, even if it looks better.
Wider tires have more contact and therefore friction and bigger ones make the car higher which spoils the wind resistance.
So it might be advisable to even reduce the size of the tires if you cant go fast anyway.
Euro Dude you are right about tire width reducing mileage but Don didn’t say he would make them any wider. Regarding your other comment though; when a wheel is made larger, a reputable company (like Tire Rack) reduces the profile of the tire so that the overall diameter of the tire-wheel combo remains the same as stock. They do that so that the speedometer will read accurately, the car will handle correctly, and there won’t be rubbing issues. So, no, the car should be no higher. Weight is also an issue. If possible it’s nice to have a tire and wheel combo that is the same weight or lighter than stock. That way fuel economy isn’t hurt and the ride of the car isn’t adversely affected. There is also tire rolling resistance but that one is next to impossible to quantify and address because the available info on it is spotty at best.
Minn Mike is right. I wouldn’t be going to a wider or a “plus one/plus two” low pofile tire and bigger wheel.Just something other than the boring stock units they put on the car. I don’t mess with the engineer’s original configurations. My experience is that they match the tire/wheel combos well with the intended nature of the car. I’ll just change the aesthetic appeal.
Guys I worked in just about every refinery in Bay area and S.ca doing inspection work. I won’t call what they are doing a conspiracy, that would mean they were trying to deceive you in some way. There is no conspiracy this is how they do business. When you fill up your tank on your 9 mpg truck or SUV and you pay 130.00 to do that, is that hidden. No it is right in your face, kinda like Stuie “In your face Brian”. I think we knew in the 70’s that things would get bad. But all the free money and fast cars, diluted our brains. Even at 4.00 a gallon I don’t see a massive switch to better milage cars. Why does a soccer mom need a full size suburban to drop the kids off and shuttle them to little league. They don’t but how else will other people know how cool you are if you don’t drive a big car. Now the chinese feel the need to stand out like rich americans, SUV sells are skyrocketing. Do a little research on them when they get to full blown CONsumer like us, oil will be 200 a barrel. The chinese are us in the 60’s still smoking and not wearing seat belts, they are at the beginning of becoming good little CONsumers.
The ultra low sulfur (ULS) diesel requirement is a big culprit in the diesel price jump we had back a year ago or so. The sulfur levels are now 30 times lower. Initially I thought that was a needless & extreme sop to the eco-nuts, but I’ve since learned that this is the same fuel spec that the Europeans have been using.
Why? Because the new catalytic converter and diesel particulate filters DPFs require the ULS not unlike we had to eliminate the tetra-ethyl-lead from our gasoline when the first generation of catalytic converters came in.
Now I tend to think that the enviro requirement to reduce sub-micron particulate emissions is a red-herring, but on the other hand I like the idea of eliminating the black smoke and stinky sulfur smells from diesel cars.
Also, China has grown so fast that some of their new electricity generation is being done with diesel generator sets (purchased from Cummins, I hope). The earthquake has caused more of these to be installed on an emergency basis. And I believe there has been some diesel fuel stockpiling going on prior to the Olympics.
We live in a global economy now; better get used to it.
I actually believe it is a conspiracy. I am old enough to remember as a teen-ager that at one point, no less than 30% of the VW Rabbits sold here were diesels, which is when diesel fuel started inching up, oddly enough. Other companies had good and bad runs with the engine. In 1990, VW brought the ECO-DIESEL Jetta over and it was basically ram-rodded by Greenpeace and the thieving, who I believe are more unscrupulous than any President we have ever had. There was a thought that the Big 3 were also involved in the demise of that said car above, because they did not have the fortitude to build something efficient and were threatened. I have owned 5 Diesel VWs and they have all been remarkable.
Of course there’s resistance to increasing % of diesel vs. gasoline. Less fuel per mile spells negative growth for oil companies and less taxes for government. And while few if any people can add alternatives to the tank of their gasoline cars, many people can add a variety of “free” alternatives to the tank of their diesel vehicles - a double whammy for oil producers and taxing authorities. Add in the added pressure of hybrid and battery vehicles and we’ll start seeing all kinds of anti-consumer proposals from government and “undefined” unavailability of diesel fuel relative to consumer demand. But the move to clean, economical diesel is unavoidable.