Comment of the Week

My answer to Steve from Georgia is simply this: It is plain to see that he never has driven in winter(snowy) conditions. My ESC and ABS have saved my bacon several times, not because of my reckless driving, but because of the unexpected winter conditions that occur in the winter. eg: a pile of slushy snow that causes the car to slide unexpectly. A patch of black ice when trying to stop, etc.
I invite him to come up to Canada some winter and try his bare bones car and then see if he enjoys driving it.

Agreed, Brian. When I lived in Vail CO. I had at least one instance where I needed ABS to avoid collision. One example: I was driving to work in the morning, came around a bend and was shocked to see an icy bridge (the roads were otherwise dry) with about 5 cars wrecked on it. I nailed the brakes but wasn’t quick enough to come to a stop before hitting the ice. The ice was water covered since it was in the process of melting. Anyone in cold country can tell you there is nothing more slick than wet ice. The ABS started popping immediately and continued to pop all the way across the bridge as the car veeeery slowly lost speed. But the amazing thing was how I was able to steer around the cars even as my brakes were on. I don’t believe I could have feathered them to such good effect. So there definitely ARE places that make these “electronic nannies” more than a mere attempt at avoiding litigation. But, hey, Steve is from Georgia. Down there, doing the things he recommends maybe does make it more unnecessary to ante up for these safety features.

32 years ago, I was driving one of those cars that Steve from Georgia admires so much. Driving on a straight, empty country road. Steady speed. Hit a patch of black ice and ended up doing a 180-degree spin into the oncoming lane. Had a vehicle been approaching, I wouldn’t be here to write this. Had I been driving a modern vehicle, it never would have happened.

Steve seems to imply that cars of past times didn’t have these features because the product liability and personal injury attorneys hadn’t yet awakened to the gold mine they were sitting on. While this notion might play well around the cracker barrel, it fails to acknowledge that the safety features we now take for granted are possible only through the advent of low-cost microprocessors.

With regard to the value of litigation, history is replete with examples of auto makers failing to act until lawsuits and regulations gave them the butt kicking they deserved. Carmakers get the regulations they deserve and the public is well-served because of it.

Steve..my son who is 47 went to Georgia Tech. We drove him down for his frosh year. I was told that people in Georgia took their antifreeze out of their cars in the summer! I also needed tires so I bought a set of four (will not mention the brand) and came back to Michigan. During the first snow I could not bring my car to a safe stop several times! Went to the brand of tires store and they checked the tires and replaced ALL of them for me! Different compound in the South, they said, than in Michigan. So Stephen be happy for auto manufacturers putting on/in safety features such as ABS brakes, etc., and oh yes…leave your antifreeze in all year long but change it every two years! My son graduated from Georgia Tech and stayed on to get an MBA in Business! Plus during the summer months between his frosh and soph years he worked in Lansing for an Auto firm with two initials!

After spending several years living in the south, (both Carolinas) I can attest to the importance of these features. ABS likely would have kept me from hitting a car that made right turn from the left lane across the front of me in rainy conditions. I also would have not spun my car trying to avoid a large dog that ran out in front of me on a two lane backroad. Yes, I know your are supposed to hit an animal rather than try emergency maneuvers, but this dog would have come through my windshield. ABS and ESC would also have kept my father out of the ICU for two weeks after a snow induced low speed crash. He is a former driving instructor and followed all the proper procedures for his situation. Electronic “nannies” would have helped him keep control of the car and helped the other vehicle avoid him. Yes, they add weight and cost. But don’t put all the blame on the manufacturers either. Many of these (airbags, tire pressure monitors, and soon ESC) are government mandated.

One final question for Steve, what was the result of that one instance?

Steve: When I called my son LD and to read him my comments he said to remind the guy that when there was an INCH of SNOW GA TECH cancelled classes and Atlanta shut down. He had a car then and the SOUTHERN BOYS would come to him to drive them to the stores and, of course, the bars! Stephen be happy for all the aids that the auto engineers are installing. Plus use the One One Thousand Two One Thousand rule especially on wet ice/snow!

Sorry pal you are dead wrong, just this week we have had some pretty strong storms from Fay and the traction control on the IS has kicked in more than once because the tires could not channel the water fast enough and lifted me off the pavement. 5 and 6 lane highways have a hard time clearing standing water when mother nature throws her best. If I had been in my old Jeep I would have pulled over with the hazards on as I see many people do, but the tech allows me to press on. Between tire quality, RainX, ABS, ESC, and Traction Control, driving in harsh conditions is night and day compared to running a rear wheel drive 70’s brick. You still need to know your cars limits, but they are just stretched further now. I still can’t get over how ESC works when it kicks in preventing the tailend from sliding around by pumping the back inside tire like anchor holding it through the turns. This really is miracle technology. You should not be on the rods without it. As for Atlanta. Folks just need to start slowing down and start acting like gas costs $4. But it is still nice to know the car has the extra toys for when things go wrong. I know I needed them this weekend.

My original comment concerning ESC, traction control and ABS was prompted by Aaron’s disappointment that the Dodge Challenger SE offered these features only as options. But I felt, and still feel that the lack of these features as a car’s standard equipment isn’t such a big deal: If you drive sanely, defensively and with your full attention, you can drive for a lifetime and never need these safety systems.

So, offering these systems as options is fine with me, and would not disqualify a car from consideration for me. But, if you view every trip as an opportunity to push the performance envelope of your car, if you think that you will always get there faster if you follow within ten feet of the next guy’s bumper and if you think that your commute is a great opportunity to catch up on your e-mail, then by all means you should buy all the safety features you can afford.

I mentioned in my original comment that I could remember one instance where these safety systems might have helped me. When I was in my early twenties, I lived in Illinois (great people, terrible roads and weather) for about three years. And like a lot of guys in their twenties, I had more confidence than I had skill when it came to driving.

One snowy morning before the snowplows were out, I became really frustrated with the slow traffic in the right lane of the Interstate. The traffic had worn and blown the snow down to the pavement in the right lane, but the traffic was just idling along.

So, being the confident young guy that I was, I got into the snow-covered left lane and eased up to about 45 mph. That went great for about a mile, and then I got into a area where the snow had frozen over into a rub-board like crust. My 1970 Mustang began to bounce, and the tail started to wag from side to side, and the next thing I knew I was stuck in the median pointing back the way I came.

So yes, ESC would have helped me that day. But, if I hadn’t been acting like an idiot, the incident never would have happened in the first place. Personally, I think most “accidents” are like that: there may be a few truly unavoidable situations that lead to accidents, but they are a tiny minority.

By the way, I want to thank Aaron and the folks who wrote in here today for the gracious and good-natured tone of their comments. There was only one comment that seemed mean-spirited, and that must be a record for an automotive blog.

How do you know Steve didn’t grow up in the North.

I’m from California but I learned how to drive in Minnesota. In my youth we took our cars on frozen lakes and drove like crazy. Yes it was stupid but it certainly taught me a lot about the dynamics of driving an automobile on ice.

Personally I don’t like ABS. When they engage, I have just lost control of my automobile. As to the other suggestions Steve made, I’ve driven that way my entire life. Never had an accident. Been driving for 50 years.

I see people driving the California Frwys at excessive speeds while following to close. My guess is these folks who are relying on their ABS have more accidents than those encountering a patch of black ice and relying on their Brains.

FWIW, I’ve experienced black ice and didn’t lose control. Not fun and fortunately nothing in my way. But ABS brakes or not, hitting black ice at excessive speeds can spell disaster. Pay attention and slow down. However, if you live in the North and prefer to rely on your ABS, be my guest.

It doesn’t rain much in California but when it does watch out. Many roads are flooded. Even that doesn’t slow people down. They continue to drive too fast and follow too closely. I guess they’re hoping to test the safety features of their new car. Then there are the few who think driving through 12 inches of water is OK if your going fast enough.

The legal profession has certainly impacted the way automobiles are made in this country. Unfortunately, that extra equipment costs lots of money. Ever ask why grey market autos can’t be brought into the US. Were these laws created to protect us or the manufacturers.

Ever wonder why half the taxi’s in Germany are newer Mercedes V8’s and not used Fords? Personally I feel a lot safer in a big Mercedes moving at 180 Klicks on the autobahn than a beat up Ford taxi so used up it couldn’t be sold for parts. I also prefer not to test the safety glass in a beat up vehicle whose brakes just failed. It’s all part of the price we pay for a country that has more attorneys than the rest of the world combined. Well it used to be that way. If that’s changed, then I feel sorry for the rest of the world.

Well I live in North Ga @ the Tennessee line (the real North GA, not Atlanta or Bigfoot country:). We get ice, snow, and torrential downpours here quite regularly. I have enjoyed the traction control in my Mazda tremendously. This is my first car with traction control, and I can see why Aaron would complain about it NOT being on a car. Traction control is a lifesaver and a MUST. ABS, side airbags, AWD.. just a few of my favorite things.

I see these systems as tools designed to be an aid when things go wrong (like when a deer runs out of the woods into your path for example). You can’t control every event even by driving well and conservatively. You also can’t control what the other guy might inexplicably do. So if these electronic aids can help to keep vehicles under control in panic situations I’m still all for them even though I agree with Steve that we can greatly reduce their need simply by driving well.

Now if we could just come up with a device that disables cell phones when they are in a car….

I agree fully with Steve. I’m 24 years old and have lived in Montana my entire life. I drove a 1972 Ford Maverick as my first car, and it was “fun” to drive in the winter. The thing is I knew how to drive it, Yes, the tail will come out if you hit the gas around an icy corner, and yes you’ll plow right on through if you stomp on the brakes in the same situation. But, I was never in an accident in that car.

On the other hand every year, come the first snow, there are countless people around town piled up in their Subarus(really popular around here), because they think their all-wheel-drive Subarus/Audi/etc.. can do anything.

Learn to drive first and foremost, and most of ‘nannies’ will not be needed.